natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (6)

no quinto artigo sobre o assunto das sedas, tive a honra de receber um comentário do próprio Mr. Peter Zwicky com quem troquei umas mensagens muito esclarecedoras, a que teve a amabilidade e paciência de responder e que hoje partilho com todos vós, com a sua permissão – por isso em todos os artigos sobre este assunto o título foi corrigido e acrescentado um aviso:
in the fifth article on the subject of silks, I had the honor to receive a comment from Mr. Peter Zwicky himself, with whom I exchanged some very enlightening messages, which he had the kindness and patience to answer and which I share with all of you today, with his permission – so in all articles on this subject the title has been corrected and added a warning:

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

 

These were the Zwicky threads I talked about – I’ll transcribe Peter Zwicky words

As far as silk is concerned, I need to clarify a few details. The word “silk” is basically related to a fiber produced by an animal, for instance a worm or a spider. The designation “vegetable silk” is not correct and should not be used, as the fiber comes from a plant. “Vegetable fiber” would be the correct wording, as Polyester is a “synthetic fiber”.
Silk is probably the most noble fiber. It’s strong, shiny, elastic, durable, dyeable in all possible colors, and can be disposed with no damage to the environment. Unfortunately, it’s very expensive, because it’s rare, needs lots of human work and cannot be produced everywhere. There are several worms (future butterflies) capable of producing silk, the best and most noble being the Bombyx Mori, mainly cultivated in China an Brazil. Other types of worms are found in Thailand, India, etc., producing lower qualities of silk. The Bombyx Mori only eats mulberry leaves and is therefore bound to regions where mulberry trees can grow. During the processing of silk, the product is divided into two categories, the real or natural silk and the schappe silk. The real silk is the fiber that is unwound directly from the cocoon. It’s a continuous filament, as it’s very long. Normally, you can unwind around 800-1’000 meters from a cocoon. As the fiber gets thinner towards the inside of the cocoon, the fiber starts to break, you cannot continue to unwind it. The remaining part of the cocoon is then torn apart and the resulting short fibers spun like cotton. The same procedure is applied to cocoons where the butterfly managed to escape from the cocoon. That’s what we call the schappe silk (from the French word “échapper”, meaning “escape”, which is related to the escape of the butterfly destroying the continuous filament and obliging the producer to extract a short fiber). The silk in its chemical composition is the same in both products, but one is made of very long single fibers (real silk), the other one of short fibers of 3-4 cm (schappe silk). It’s clear that the real silk is by far the most noble one. It’s also the only one that has this very particular shine once dyed. The dyeing process removes the protection coat that the worm adds to the fiber during the spinning of the cocoon (it’s a glue, representing 25% of the total weight) and allows the silk to reflect the light on its clear surface. The real silk is what you will find in scarves, ties and clothing fabrics, where the schappe silk is used for underwear, socks, etc.”
An embroidery looks the best if real silk is used. That’s what you have with the skeins of Zwicky Silk you managed to obtain. In Switzerland Zwicky produced two types of silk threads. One made out of real silk and one made out of schappe silk.
The real silk Zwicky products were called Filofloss (thick thread for hand embroidery, on small hanks) and it was the Rolls Royce of embroidery threads. It’s 100% of the best Bombyx Mori from either China or Brazil, spun, twisted and dyed on high quality machines; Universel (for machine sewing, on bobins), AMF (for industrial machine top stitching, on hanks) and Flora (for button holes in private homes, on very small bobbins).
The schappe threads were called Chalet (for machine sewing, on bobbins) and Iris (for home sewing, on very small bobbins). Unfortunately, with the closing of the production in Switzerland in 2000, the embroidery silk of Zwicky was discontinued.

If you have Zwicky samples of an embroidery thread, it’s Filofloss (4 meters on each hank). They are made of the best real silk. You can easily distinguish real silk from schappe silk, as real silk shines much more because of its continuous filaments and has no hairy structure.”

Thank you so much Mr. Peter Zwicky for such a great information
– I think I have a  Rolls Royce at home!

[Schappe Silk -Spun (not reeled) silk yarns that have been degummed by a lengthy and very smelly fermentation process.      https://texeresilk.com/article/silk_information_dictionary]

 



natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (5)

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

quanto à seda fibra vegetal nada mais encontrei do já referi nos artigos anteriores, nada quanto às marcas portuguesas e muito pouco sobre esta marca Zwicky que recebi como sendo seda vegetal usada nos bordados de Castelo Branco; recebi também uma série de sedas como seda natural, uma delas também Zwicky 
as for the vegetal fiber silk  I found nothing more than I have already written in the previous posts, nothing about the Portuguese labels and very little about this Zwicky label that I received as vegetal silk used in the embroideries of Castelo Branco; I also received a number of silks as natural silk, one of them also Zwicky


pesquisei e a marca Zwicky tem uma longa e interessante história, que achei valer a pena ler e partilhar, embora escrita em inglês ou alemão – a marca surgiu em 1840, em Zurique,após vários acontecimentos em 1982 ainda pertencia à sexta geração Zwicky e em 2001 junta-se à Gütermann ainda com um Peter Zwicky, que segundo esta notícia  se reforma aos 62 anos, após 16 anos como responsável da Gütermann, (2 anos depois desta notícia de 2014 , poderemos especular que devido a esta nova fase da empresa?)
I searched for Zwicky brand has a long and interesting history, which I found newsworthy to read and share, although written in English or German –  the brand appeared in 1840 in Zurich, after several events in 1982 still belonged to the sixth generation Zwicky and in 2001 joined Gütermann still with a Peter Zwicky, who according to this news retires at age 62, after 16 years as CEO of Gütermann, (2 years after this 2014 news, can we speculate that due to this new phase of the company?)
[all links can be read in English and Deutsche]
if you want read former posts:

natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (1) 
natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (2)
natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (3)
natural silk vs vegetal fiber | seda natural vs fibra vegetal (4)

natural silk vs vegetal fiber| seda natural vs fibra vegetal(4)

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

sabra-silks-from-morocco from   http://www.sugarandspice.es/ click on the photo

procurando por sabra silk, encontrei este artigo de onde se conclui ser uma fibra vegetal essencialmente usada para ser tecida – o processo do seu fabrico é muito semelhante à do fabrico do linho – Marrocos é o país mais mencionado neste artigo, mas há também referência a uma planta idêntica no México –  procurando por cactus ou agave silk  encontram-se quase as mesmas ligações
looking for sabra silk, I found this article where it concludes to be a vegetable fiber essentially used to be woven – the process of its manufacture is very similar to the manufacture of flax – Morocco is the most mentioned country in this article, but there is also a reference to an identical plant in Mexico – looking for cactus or agave silk we find actually the same connections
se se procurar por silk cotton vamos ter à Índia e à relação com os termos , kapok e sumaúma
if we look for silk cotton we are taken to India and with the terms, kapok and sumauma

Ceiba pentandra parece ser a mesma fibra mas leva-nos para a América Central, América do Sul e oeste de África e volta à kapot tree, sumaúma, parece “uma pescadinha de rabo na boca” e sempre aparece relacionada com a tecelagem e não com o bordado – acho que nada concluí sobre as sedas vegetais que tenho, algumas de marcas portuguesas que já não existem e desapareceram do mapa de pesquisas que fiz
Ceiba pentandra seems to be the same fiber but it takes us to Central America, South America and West Africa and back to the kapot tree, it seems an endless roundabout and always appears related to weaving and not embroidering – I end knowing nothing about the vegetal silks I have, some of the Portuguese brands that no longer exist and have disappeared from the research map I made!
entre todos os livros que tenho, só encontrei uma única referência à seda vegetal no livro O Bordado de Castelo Branco de Margarida Ivo Costa, que transcrevo:
” O etnólogo Luís Chaves, tal como já em 1940 protestara contra a utilização da seda vegetal, condena a introdução de motivos heráldicos…” (pág.18)
among all the books I have, I only found a single reference to vegetal silk in the book The Embroidery of Castelo Branco by Margarida Ivo Costa, which I quote:
“The ethnologist Luís Chaves, as he had already protested against the use of vegetal silk in 1940, condemns the introduction of heraldic motifs …” (p.18)

se quiserem seguir esta série:
if you want follow previous posts on the subject:
natural silk vs vegetal silk | seda natural vs seda vegetal (1) 
natural silk vs vegetal silk | seda natural vs seda vegetal (2)
natural silk vs vegetal silk | seda natural vs seda vegetal (3)

natural silk vs vegetal fiber| seda natural vs fibra vegetal (3)

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

individual silks 1

continuo a referir-me às sedas vegetais, na foto ficou aquela seda para bordar porque a forma de a comercializar é a mesma destes exemplares antigos da seda vegetal – conjuntos de fios que se separam e vendiam em conjunto ou individualmente conforme a disponibilidade de recursos da bordadeira
I continue to refer to the vegetal silks, in the photo was that silk to embroider because the way to market it is the same as these ancient itens of vegetal silk – sets of threads can be separate and sell together or individually according to the availability of money of the embroiderer

individual silks 2

as pontas de cada seda são atadas com um nó e têm cerca de 3m

individual silks 3

seda individual com um suave torcido

individual silks 4

aquela parte escura é devido à cola que junta o conjunto das sedas e que se vão retirando, uma a uma.

seda artificial Radio

muito diferente desta apresentação em meada, no entanto a seda é muito idêntica  com um suave torcido
very different from this presentation in skeins, however the silk is very similar with a soft twist.

 

amostras de pontos
stitches sampler

a única vez que experimentei as sedas vegetais foi nesta amostra de pontos
the only time I tried the vegetable silks was on this stitch sample long, long ago
até breve    see you soon

 

natural silk vs vegetal fiber| seda natural vs fibra vegetal(2)

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

Seda artificial Venus – AMC

por seda vegetal encontrei bastantes artigos, a maior parte em inglês; por seda artificial, nem vos digo o que encontrei pois nada tem a ver com o tema; só pesquisei porque tenho muitas meadas antigas que têm no rótulo, em português essa designação – vou, por isso esquecer a seda artificial.
by vegetal silk found plenty of articles, mostly in English; by artificial silk, don’t dare to tell you what I found, because it has nothing to do with the subject; just researched because I have many old skeins that have that designation on the label, in Portuguese  – so w’ll forget the artificial silk

seda artificial Radium

seda artificial Radio

Pesquisei estas marcas mas o Sr. Google levou-me para caminhos absolutamente incríveis e alguns mesmo duvidosos
o único artigo que encontrei em português é do Brasil:  Seda no chão  é um texto curto
I researched these brands but Mr. Google took me to absolutely incredible ways and some even dubious the only article I found in Portuguese is from Brazil: Silk on the floor is a short text

seda vegetal – M.S.S.J.r

por seda vegetal, em português também há pouco, vai sempre dar a seda natural e papel vegetal! Aqui encontra-se o Raiom, designada por seda artificial, fibra de celulose, que aparece nas primeiras décadas do sec.XX.
em inglês há muita mais informação, que me levou à Kapok tree  e fiquei a saber que esta árvore  é uma árvore tropical de origem oriental, cujas sementes são  também designadas por silk cotton  Kapok é traduzido no google por sumaúma o que confere com a imagem encontrada no Google
in English there is much more information that led me to  Kapok tree and I learned that is a tropical tree of oriental origin, whose seeds are also called silk cotton
Kapok is translated into Portuguese as sumaúma which confers with the image found on Google

Kapok tree
sumaúma

acho extraordinário não ter encontrado nada em português nem sobre as marcas antigas; fiquei sem saber qual a origem das sedas vegetais antigas que tenho por cá
I find  extraordinary that I found nothing in Portuguese or about the old marks; I know nothing at all the origin of the old vegetable silks that I have here
haverá alguém por aí que tenha mais informação?
Is there anyone out there who has more information?

also search by vegetable Silk also known as Sabra, Cactus or Agave Silk
Bombay ceiba, Ceiba pentandra, ceiba tree, God tree, silk-cotton tree, white silk-cotton tree – I’ve found all this related with vegetable silk.
(continua)
(to be continued)

 

natural silk vs vegetal fiber| seda natural vs fibra vegetal (1)

Aviso: por favor, sempre que me refiro a seda vegetal leiam fibra vegetal 
Warning: Please whenever I refer to vegetal silk read vegetal fiber

ontem tirei e editei as fotos das sedas artificiais e fibras vegetais antigas que tenho, à noite andei a pesquisar
yesterday I made and edited pictures of the old silks and vegetal fiber silks I have, in the evening went on researching

 

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aqui estão o que penso serem as sedas naturais antigas que tenho, faltam aqui as sedas atuais
here what I think are the old natural silks I have (the modern silks are still missing )

 

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hoje de manhã mais fotos e pesquisa, meti-me em trabalhos!
today morning more photos and research, hard but voluntary work!